கல்வி

[Balan72]

Neenga paarthavangalukku basics theriyaama irundhurukkum but that doesnt mean that everyone is dumb

I understand that I’m intruding into the convo between you @Vanathi and @Needu . But since I initiated the controversy I think I can participate.

No where we have told all people are dumb. The thing is the present education system that we have isn’t making people learn but it’s rewarding those who just reproduce. Mostly. Some smart children manage to think and learn IN SPITE OF the present system and not because of the system.

What we yearn for and seek is to remove the short cuts or loopholes in the present system that enables mere reproduction of paras fetching marks and encourage only application of concepts as success. A simple change in the system would turn around the knowledge base of the county and thus trigger growth and wealth.

 

[Vanathi]

Guess you got it wrong...nan generalize panni solradhundradhu ippo irukkura students mentality or their capability...it doesnt mean all are dumb.. there are exceptions nu sonnene...its not about marks...adippadai /basics nalla irundha 100/100 vanganumnu avasiyam illa, but life la adha vangiduvanga...kandippa arivu viruthi agum...please dont blindly support today's education system...notes vechu class edukaradhum, notes koduthu exam ku padichu oppikka solradhum tharamaana kalviye illaindradhu ennoda karuthu...andha kaalathula cut off mark lam illai , ippadi ellarum mandhai mandhaiya pasangala engineer akkanumnu kuriya illai...there are hundreds and thousands of engineering graduates working for a paltry salary...why they should undergo this? Idhu periya subject debate pannite irukkalam...

Kodi roova koduthaalum 4.15ku mela ofcla ukkaara maatten. So naalaikku kaalaila vandhu continue panren

 

[Balan72]

notes vechu class edukaradhum, notes koduthu exam ku padichu oppikka solradhum tharamaana kalviye illaindradhu ennoda karuthu..

Amen.

there are hundreds and thousands of engineering graduates working for a paltry salary...why they should undergo this?

That’s the point. When the quality get diluted, it is but natural that the law of nature / economics take over and show you the reality.

 

[Vanathi]

What i meant to say is "Basic" doesnt need to be the same during all ages. The "Basics" which we learnt need not be the "Basics" for current generation.

I will give my job as an example. I am a developer. When i joined the corporation, my seniors used to type the code manually in notepad and execute the program. They know all the syntaxes by heart. When we joined, some tools were available which helped in auto completing the syntax. So, we needed know the syntax but we can use the help of the tool if we got stuck. After that, google had so many resources and copy/paste pannunale we can managenu aachu. But ippo indha kaalathula chatgpt kitta requirement sonnaa adhuve full codea adichu kodukkudhu. We just have to copy paste with some minor tweaks.

Ippo varra generatation kitta poi code syntax by hearta theriyala adhanaala he/she is dumb nu sonnaa thats not correct. We need to change the yardstick in their case. We need to test their skills on information access, adaptability, critical thinking and problem solving.

Its scientifically proven that average intelligence is increasing exponentially with every generation.. So, if we are still stuck in "andha kaalathula naangalaam theru vilakku velichathula padichom" mode, its we who are dumb, not them.

 

[Needu]

நாங்க சொல்றதே அண்ணா அந்தந்த காலத்து basic தான். அந்த basics ஒழுங்கா சொல்லி கொடுங்க கத்துக்கோங்க ன்னு தான்.. An elephant is an elephant, just as rose is a rose.. These things never will change.. Computer manushan kandu piduchadhu thaane adhanale changes vandhutte thaan irukkum.. Apdithan you learned.. Photosynthesis, respiration, debit, credit laam eppovum maaraadhu.. Adha than solrom.. Already said you may be an exception so whats the point in quoting yourself as one example.. Knowledge has nothing to do with time and age.. People should apply their mind with the basics tgey learned to improve their quality of life.. Avlodhan

 

[Meen]

ppo varra generatation kitta poi code syntax by hearta theriyala adhanaala he/she is dumb nu sonnaa thats not correct. We need to change the yardstick in their case. We need to test their skills on information access, adaptability, critical thinking and problem solving.

Its scientifically proven that average intelligence is increasing exponentially with every generation.. So, if we are still stuck in "andha kaalathula naangalaam theru vilakku velichathula padichom" mode, its we who are dumb, not them.

I agree with most of your points on how education and how we evaluate should keep changing with time. But I dont think intha generation pona generation nu pirichu paakrathu makes sense. Code syntax kekrathu entha kalathulayum, entha generation la ketaalum it is not a right thing to measure/assess. Ipo generative AI elaam vantha naala it is more evident. 10 years back kooda there were companies which focused on problem solving/data structures/design patterns, language or syntax importance kudukla.

ts scientifically proven that average intelligence is increasing exponentially with every generation..

And am curious about this, itha pathi ethaachu source or brief solla mudiyuma? I am asking because I have read studies which show a decline in average IQ with increased reliance on technology.

 

[Meen]

View attachment 17576

I see the point, but intha comparision is not fair. Education is just a training, oru tool avalo thaan. Homemaker ah irunthaalum it will make your life so much simpler. Aluminum cooker la hot water heat pannra appo athu black aagama iruka lemon podanum nu kandupidichathum oru science therinja home maker naala thaane mudiyum.
School la epidi irunthaanga nu vechu judge panrathu thappu mathuri avanga profession vechu judge panrathum thappu thaan.

 

[Vanathi]

நாங்க சொல்றதே அண்ணா அந்தந்த காலத்து basic தான். அந்த basics ஒழுங்கா சொல்லி கொடுங்க கத்துக்கோங்க ன்னு தான்.. An elephant is an elephant, just as rose is a rose.. These things never will change.. Computer manushan kandu piduchadhu thaane adhanale changes vandhutte thaan irukkum.. Apdithan you learned.. Photosynthesis, respiration, debit, credit laam eppovum maaraadhu.. Adha than solrom.. Already said you may be an exception so whats the point in quoting yourself as one example.. Knowledge has nothing to do with time and age.. People should apply their mind with the basics tgey learned to improve their quality of life.. Avlodhan

I accept that basics dont change. But our world has evolved over time and its much more complex than before. So, i am just saying dont get stuck in the past and judge them based only what you consider as 'basic'. May be you should update yourself and ask the right questions.

As a developing nation, our first priority is having food on table and having a decent lifestyle. So, we were producing more engineers as the demand was more and pay was good. Many of us didnt have choice but to choose a job which pays more whether we like it or not. Now that times are improving, we may start concentrating more on improving creativity and other such skills. Adhukkaaga kanna moodittu namma education is worst nu solradhu isnt acceptable.. IMHO, its better than before.

 

[Vanathi]

And am curious about this, itha pathi ethaachu source or brief solla mudiyuma? I am asking because I have read studies which show a decline in average IQ with increased reliance on technology.

I am not an expert in this subject. So, i did what i do when i am not sure of something. I googled 'which generation is smarter' and got the result that average intelligence is increasing exponentially. That's called Flynn's effect. You can check on that.

 

[Meen]

I am not an expert in this subject. So, i did what i do when i am not sure of something. I googled 'which generation is smarter' and got the result that average intelligence is increasing exponentially. That's called Flynn's effect. You can check on that.

Thanks! I didnt know that. Looked it up, This is what I understood.

It appears that the Flynn Effect initially compares scores from 1932 to those of recent years, explaining the 30-point increase. However, post-2000, the rate of increase plateaued, and numerous recent studies indicate a negative Flynn Effect.

 

[Needu]

I accept that basics dont change. But our world has evolved over time and its much more complex than before. So, i am just saying dont get stuck in the past and judge them based only what you consider as 'basic'. May be you should update yourself and ask the right questions.

As a developing nation, our first priority is having food on table and having a decent lifestyle. So, we were producing more engineers as the demand was more and pay was good. Many of us didnt have choice but to choose a job which pays more whether we like it or not. Now that times are improving, we may start concentrating more on improving creativity and other such skills. Adhukkaaga kanna moodittu namma education is worst nu solradhu isnt acceptable.. IMHO, its better than before.

Again it appears that you got it wrong.. We never mentioned what is basic.. Clearly mentioned 'andhandha kaalathu basic'... Secondly engineering was one example because predominantly people prefer to learn.. There is always a clear cut line that divides basic subjects like science, humanities, commerce and applied subjects like engineering /technology... Idha karpikkira murai (you know very well how they teach) than seri illa.. Kathukittavanga nalla padiya kathukitta than pudhusa varavangalukku seriya kathukodukka mudiyum? In today's situation, 'the best' hardly take up teaching as profession.. So eventually the mediocres come into that and its obvious how much one can get groomed by these.. Super intelligenta irukkanumnu sollala... Kathukkura adippadai vishayangala nalla kathukonga, sollikodunga nu solrom..un joblaye unakku theriyadhadha sollikodukka training en kodukkaranga? Andha basics a kathukittu nee innum excel panna dhane?

 

[Vanathi]

Thanks! I didnt know that. Looked it up, This is what I understood.

It appears that the Flynn Effect initially compares scores from 1932 to those of recent years, explaining the 30-point increase. However, post-2000, the rate of increase plateaued, and numerous recent studies indicate a negative Flynn Effect.

As i said earlier, i am not an expert in that subject. Whatever i said was just based on google results.
From the links you have given, that rate has plateaued in developed countries and the same might not be applicable for developing countries. Even a plateau doesnt mean people are dumber, it still means that they are smarter or equal to their previous generations.

Older generation might have gained some wisdom with their experience which younger generation cannot beat. But IMHO younger generation are better in self learning and creativity. So, avangala nammala vida dumbnu solradhu isnt acceptable to me

 

[Vanathi]

Again it appears that you got it wrong.. We never mentioned what is basic.. Clearly mentioned 'andhandha kaalathu basic'... Secondly engineering was one example because predominantly people prefer to learn.. There is always a clear cut line that divides basic subjects like science, humanities, commerce and applied subjects like engineering /technology... Idha karpikkira murai (you know very well how they teach) than seri illa.. Kathukittavanga nalla padiya kathukitta than pudhusa varavangalukku seriya kathukodukka mudiyum? In today's situation, 'the best' hardly take up teaching as profession.. So eventually the mediocres come into that and its obvious how much one can get groomed by these.. Super intelligenta irukkanumnu sollala... Kathukkura adippadai vishayangala nalla kathukonga, sollikodunga nu solrom..un joblaye unakku theriyadhadha sollikodukka training en kodukkaranga? Andha basics a kathukittu nee innum excel panna dhane?

Studentsla irundhu professors dumb nu generalize panniyacha ippo lol
Adhuvum varies from institution to institution, individual to individual.. Ippadiye pesittu pona full day idhulaye pogum. So, naan poi pozhappa paakuren. Happy debating!!

 

[Needu]

Studentsla irundhu professors dumb nu generalize panniyacha ippo lol
Adhuvum varies from institution to institution, individual to individual.. Ippadiye pesittu pona full day idhulaye pogum. So, naan poi pozhappa paakuren. Happy debating!!

ellathayum thappave purinjukkaradhu

 

[Goodie]

I see the point, but intha comparision is not fair. Education is just a training, oru tool avalo thaan. Homemaker ah irunthaalum it will make your life so much simpler. Aluminum cooker la hot water heat pannra appo athu black aagama iruka lemon podanum nu kandupidichathum oru science therinja home maker naala thaane mudiyum.
School la epidi irunthaanga nu vechu judge panrathu thappu mathuri avanga profession vechu judge panrathum thappu thaan.

Not judging the profession. Just telling we can't judge an individual with their marks. Marks ellam chumma kanthudaiputhan.

I don’t think that the purpose of education is merely to get a job or have a good career (although maybe it is for some people). But I really think that it is more than that, it is about self-fulfillment or development or whatever you call it. I know a lot of women who are a housewife, and people will say that they don’t need a degree because they are a housewife, they have a husband who is very rich, they don’t need to work to help the family income, but they still take their Master’s degree or even PhD. Why?

Being a housewife, or a well-educated woman, or both is a choice. There must be a reason for every choice that we make.

Also I see a lot of home maker who left their education to be a home maker by compulsion. Once they leave everything aside, they are no more the Once so called topper. They still remain in the same place not coping with the technology. I don't know how far you understand this

Education is not just 12+3/4 yrs of learning. It's throughout our life learning process.

 

[Balan72]

All i m trying to say is the education should add value to our lives, transform us inside, be of any use to the society at large. That’s all.
Many have gone through the same education system of merit rating with mere marks, that tests memory and reproduction and not the application of the concepts absorbed, which should be the very purpose of the test if at all needed. Few of the lot manage to learn and absorb the concept but many miss the concept ONLY because the test wont check absorption of concept but only the reproduction of the words.

There appears to be a loop hole in that system, People could earn a degree merely by memorizing something and reproducing that in a paper, not to be applied till the end of the world. There's a system lapse and that need to be fixed. That' all. Well, that cannot be called as education. It can fetch a government job, one can rub a seat with butts for a lifetime and suck the money of exchequer. No utility of such scrap degree to that person or to the society / world at large.

And the remedy for fixing this system lapse, to seal this loophole is so simple. Merely by changing the merit rating examination system from memorizing and recalling to test the ability to apply the concepts absorbed. Let us not dilute the passing criterion. By doing this, the whole memorizing lot will go back and learn the concept, which will add value to them and to the society. It is that simple.

Besides such knowledge, our education system should show what is good and what is ugly to the children as @Goodie rightly pointed out. Morality shapes the children and differentiates from animals.

My submission with humility is to stop this mockery of printing all these fancy degree names which are useless and fake it as education. Let the standards be ruthless, not compromised for whatever sake so that only and only the skilled and transformed get certified and not those who can just recall.

 

[MASK]

இதுக்கு பேசாம பருத்தி மூட்டை,
குடோன்லேயே இருந்திருக்கலாம்…..!!

 

[Sethu96]

அந்த கல்வி இப்போது பறிக்கத் தொடங்கி விட்டார்கள். இந்த சமூகம் சார்ந்த ஒருவர் இந்த கல்வி தான் படிக்க வேண்டும் என்று மறைமுகமாக திணிக்கப்பட்டு கொண்டிருக்கிறது. இவன் இந்த படிப்பு தான் படிக்க வேண்டும் என்று கூறுகின்றனர்.